Snapper Series: CAO Rapid Fire Updates

Marc Bhalla - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbhalla/

Thank you to our episode sponsor - https://dhacondolaw.ca/

Thanks for tuning in to THE Condo Pod Hosted by Michael Lewicki, Joshua VanHooydonk, and Nancy Houle, The Condo Pod is brought to you by the Canadian Condominium Institute – Eastern Ontario Chapter.

This is your go-to podcast for all things condo in Eastern Ontario—from governance and legal updates to maintenance, management, and community living. Whether you’re a condo owner, director, or industry professional, you’ll find insights, stories, and expert advice to help you navigate the world of condominiums with confidence.

Subscribe now and never miss an episode!

Thank you to our gold sponsors

Elia Associates
UpperBee
Condominium Management Group

Thank you to our silver sponsors

Keller Engineering
Davidson Houle Allen LLP
Eastern Ontario Property Management Group
Sentinel Management Group

Thank you to our Bronze Sponsors
Atrens Counsel
Jani King
CWB Maxium Financial
Normac
Nova Property Management Experts
Lacasse Building Solutions
Parliament Cleaning Group
3D Security Services
DanCan Electrical LTD

DISCLAIMER

Presenters, the Canadian Condominium Institute and its representatives will not be held liable in any respect whatsoever for any statement or advice presented herein. These presentations should not be relied upon as a professional opinion or as an authoritative or comprehensive answer in any case. Professional advice should be obtained after discussing all particulars applicable in the specific circumstances to obtain an opinion or report capable of absolving condominium directors from liability [under s. 37 (3) (b) of the Condominium Act, 1998]. Presenters' views expressed are not necessarily those of the Canadian Condominium Institute.

Follow us on socials @ccieasternontario

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Thank you for tuning in to the Condo Pod. Welcome to the Condo Pod brought to you by Canadian Condominium Institute, Eastern Ontario, your go-to space for all things condo. From governance and legal updates to maintenance, management, and community living, the Condo Pod tackles key issues affecting our condominium community. Whether you are a condo owner, director, or industry professional, you will find insights, stories, and expert advice to help you navigate the world of condominiums with confidence. If you are not yet a member of CCI Asian Ontario, don't forget to join us. For more information about how you can become a member, click the link below or in the show notes. We are introducing a new series today, Snappers. And so today we're gonna start off with CAO Snappers. And once again, we are joined by Mark Bala from the CAO. Mark is a leader and dispute resolution specialist with over 20 years of private practice and servicing in the condominium industry. He's currently the vice president of programs, policy, and dispute resolution and deputy registrar at the condominium authority of Ontario. He's also a member of the faculty at Osgood Law School and the York University School of Continuing Studies, and was formerly a member as mediator and adjudicator of the condominium authority tribunal. Mark, let me once again start by thanking you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

It's always a pleasure, Nancy. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

And folks, if you haven't had a chance to check out our earlier chat, Moving In Together, the first episode of our introduction with the CAO, don't forget to go ahead and check that out. Fabulous information. You don't want to miss that. So, Mark, today we're going to focus on hot topics, key issues, what's happened recently and where we're going at the CAO. Hence the title, CAO Snappers. So, shall we jump right into the first hot topic, which I understand is a new pilot program that has been launched?

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Certainly. Yeah. So ever since we came into existence on our website, we've had a series of resources for common issues that condos experience. And what we're doing since April 2026 is launching a pilot to enhance a couple of them. We're focusing on records and parking and storage. And what we're trying to do is reimagine them a little bit, enhance them, and see what resonates for the sector to make the information and resources provided as helpful as possible. Part of it is changing the narrative slightly to really frame the tribunal as the last resort, not the first place you go if you have a problem. Try to work things out amongst yourselves, try to collaborate, try to be friendly with your neighbors and your management and your board before having to escalate. But really, what we're trying to do is see what works because we know there's not a one-size-fits-all solution for condos. So, for example, Nancy, one of the things I'd love to get your take on is if somebody comes to you with a need for records, what's the first thing they should do? Like, should they fill out the request for records form as the first step, or should they have a friendly conversation with their manager or a member of their board? Because some condominiums do direct people to fill out that form as a first step. Others would prefer a just friendlier conversation where they're not on the clock for a reply. And for people who are looking for that kind of records, sometimes what they want isn't the record itself. It's information that they're not legally entitled to. So a friendly approach and a casual conversation might actually get them the answers they want, right? So trying to work through that a little bit and figure out what makes the most sense because we know there's not a one size fits all, but we also don't want to overwhelm people with too many choices and not enough direction. So it's really trying to strike that balance. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 3:36

It does make sense. And it is a hard balance to strike because you're always trying to make sure that you are treating all owners fairly and equitably and also having that harmonious and open dialogue within a community. So in a situation where a condo has a website and all the records are available on a website, it may be that that initial conversation is the place to start. If a condo doesn't have a website where all information can be easily accessed, then it may be necessary for each owner who wants to see a record to complete the records request to ensure that all owners are treated equitably and fairly. So as you said, Mark, there is no one-stop shop where everything is going to look exactly the same for each condo. So the idea with the get the guided pathways, I guess, is to really just give people options and ideas that may fit their community.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

100% and help them realize that what works for one community isn't necessarily going to work for theirs, that they there can be variants. Another big piece, because we conducted a series of advisory panels with the sector earlier this year to try to get some guidance around this pilot and what direction we want it to go. And one of the most common pieces of feedback we got, uh particularly from managers, is a lot of times they receive requests for records that people already have. So trying to find a very friendly way of telling people to check that they might already have what they they're asking for in the AGM package, in a pick, or something along those lines, or as you say, a community website, don't even have to go to the trouble of asking others for information. So just some of those self-help type steps. At the same time, we don't want to come off as being too uh basic and telling people things that they've already tried. So making sure that they have enough information to understand what their options are and where they can go. Some cases are going to have to go to the tribunal. We just don't want cases to go there that don't need to go there. That's pretty much how it goes.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Well, it sounds like a logical first step. Go to the guided pathway, take a look, see if you've already tried something or if you haven't. And then, as you said, it the the going to the cat is the last resort. Hopefully you can work it out within your community.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Totally. And so what we're doing right now for this year is piloting some changes to the records content and the parking and storage content. And the approach for each are very different. And we're just seeking feedback so that we can find the right way to improve those resources. And if we're able to get some clarity on what works for people, then we'll expect to roll out that type of approach across all of the combinations.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

So is the pilot program available to everybody to try?

unknown 6:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah, it's available for everybody to try. It's live on our website right now. We're actively seeking feedback. There are some people who had previously signed up to uh offer us some feedback that we're engaging in user testing, but we're putting it out to the public to provide us feedback so we can get as much uh as possible to get a sense of what's working for people and what's not, knowing that there's not a one size fits all. So we have to try to strike the right balance there in terms of what works for people.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Terrific. So, folks, if you haven't already had a chance to try it out, and if you're in a situation where you're trying to get information or records, go ahead, check that out, and see if we can help improve the resources for everybody in the community. So let's tackle the next hot topic: proxy forms. I think proxy forms have been um helpful and challenging since the dawn of condominium. So, Mark, where are we at with our proxy forms?

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Uh, ever since the CAO took on the stewardship of forms, uh, our data very clearly shows that the proxy form is the form that has the most complaints, that has the most challenges, that's the most problematic. Uh, when I was with you last time, I talked about how it's easy for people to sit in the stands and point fingers and complain. What I really need is solutions and looking for solutions. So we've been working hard at that. Uh, did a lot of public consultation, a lot of subject matter expert engagement, and have a prototype together that we recently completed in March completed a survey on. And what we found is the satisfaction rate of the prototype that we used is approximately 40% higher than the satisfaction rate of the form that exists right now.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

That's a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

The satisfaction rate of the current proxy form. Yeah, the satisfaction rate of the current proxy form is in the 40s of people being happy with it, which I don't think is unexpected. Some people might actually think that's surprisingly on the criticisms we've received of the proxy form. The prototype that we've put together satisfaction rates in the 80s. So that's that's really promising. The the big thing for me is I know that we're never gonna get perfect. I know that no matter what happens, there's going to be blogs out there critical of the form no matter what. And I can't let that get in the way of us improving the form, especially if we have an opportunity to drastically, which such a change in satisfaction that of 40% is pretty significant, right? Very significant, actually. We're working towards.

unknown 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

We're really working towards it. The problem is, the challenge is that this is a prescribed form. The minister is going to have to approve it. We know the ministry is busy, and we can't fault the ministry when it comes to the condo space of needing to prioritize the unproclaimed provisions of the legislation because they only have this year to do that. So we're not really sure on how the timing is going to work, but we are working with the ministry to go through this process and are really hopeful of being able to get some improvements underway in the proxy form. We're just going to need a little bit of time. And when I have a sense of exactly what kind of timing we're looking at, I'll certainly come back and update you in that front.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Terrific. And I know that I've tested out a proxy form creation tool, and it was terrific. I very much enjoyed using it. I thought it was very user-friendly and very straightforward. And so hopefully in the near future, others will be able to test that out.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

If you're a condo director, a property manager, an industry professional, or a con owner, clear your schedule for Friday, May 29th. It's the annual CCI Eastern Ontario Kingston Conference. It's happening at the Kingston Mario, and it's a one-stop shop for everything condominium. We're diving into governance, law, insurance, common elements, all the moving parts that keep your combo community running smoothly. Or at least obviously better at night. But it's a great chance to connect with others in the common world who get it. Thinking about sponsoring or exhibiting, now is the time. Spots are going fast. Register today at ccieasternOntario.ca.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, it's um it's basically the equivalent of like a turbo tax where you can fill out some information, like a guided survey, and then that information pre-populates the form. So we have received positive feedback that it does make it easier for people to complete the form, but there remains the struggle of the form in and of itself. And that requires the ministry's involvement and more formality to actually update that form. So in the meantime, as an interim measure, that that smart form can be helpful. But ultimately, we do need to get that form more user-friendly for people because so many times people struggle with it, don't understand what they're signing, don't understand where to sign. And all we really want to do is make sure that owners have the opportunity to exercise their vote. We can't have a form that gets in the way of that.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

And that's the underlying message is we want to make sure people can attend their AGMs one way or another, exercise their votes, and we don't want to have a form that is used as a sword to stop people from having the opportunity to exercise their votes. We want a form that's user-friendly and practical, and that should be the intent for everybody who is using that form.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Completely. And we know that there have been great progressions in e-voting and other uh options like that that work for some condos, but the CAO is responsible for the condos across the province, different shapes and sizes, different levels of wealth. So the proxy form is an important piece that needs to be there, that needs to be improved upon. And we're getting there. We just need a little bit of time to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Well, we look forward to seeing that. So stay tuned, everyone. Uh, maybe at our next CAO snapper, we'll be announcing that that is available. So stay tuned. Let's move then to cat case dismissal trends. I know earlier we did talk about vexatious litigants. We talked about how can the cat help the condominium community deal with cases that are um valid and meritorious. And are there ways that we can remove cases that maybe don't make sense to be going to the cat from the system? I think we have an update on that.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Definitely. And at the risk of sounding like a corporate sellout by talking about fiscal year ends and things, our fiscal year end is March 31st, and we use that to track various stats. Uh, this past fiscal year, the tribunal had 82 dismissals, which is significantly a new record. Uh, I believe it was under 40 every previous year, and I think even getting around that number was quite high and fairly unique. So, what we're seeing a trend of are are cases being dismissed for being out of the tribunal's jurisdiction. Um, but also we're seeing the adjudicators practice active adjudication and taking the initiative on themselves to dismiss a case if it's very clearly outside of jurisdiction. If there's something that seems like it might be sure, you need the responding party to participate. But what the trend has been is if it's not necessary for a responding party to spend the time uh to participate, if something's very clearly outside of jurisdiction, why engage them? Why require them to put in the effort? So uh a lot of cases brought around chargebacks, about repairs and maintenance that are very clearly not within the tribunal's jurisdiction. Some chargebacks are, and that's where it gets a little bit complicated. Some folks don't fully understand how the jurisdiction works. It's not always very straightforward, but nevertheless, those two items, there have been quite a few dismissals. So I think that the tribunal adjudicators, acting independently, I have no sway over them, of course, uh, but have gotten more active in turning away cases that are clearly outside of the jurisdiction. But also it makes us realize that there's some desire to come to us for some of these issues. And as we contemplate what kind of submissions might need to be made to the government and engage the sector as to what might the future of the tribunal jurisdiction look like, trying to get a sense of what will work and what won't, I think is really important. Because right now, if people are coming, trying to come to the tribunal for repairs and maintenance issues or certain chargeback issues, maybe they're not seeing court as a viable option. Maybe it's too expensive for them. Maybe private mediation and arbitration also is a challenge. We're trying to boost our resources to support them in following those paths as well, because different types of issues need to follow different paths to get resolved. But I think that the types of cases that come to the tribunal that aren't able to advance because they're out of jurisdiction are worth taking a look at, both in terms of ensuring we're not wasting resources for the folks who are on the receiving end of those applications, but also in trying to chart a way forward for what makes the most sense for the tribunal jurisdiction in the future.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

I think that is a bit of a balancing act for sure, because we are seeing cases that really just should not be brought to the cat, the court, mediation arbitration. They are uh cases where there's a dispute about issues that really are just basic fundamental personality conflicts, and that's one issue. And then, of course, again, the the those cases that should follow a different pathway than the cat. So maybe we'll talk a little bit more just for a moment about what we see coming down the pipe going to the cat. I know there's change to the legislation coming up. We've got, we've we've hinted at so far the December 31st deadline. So, from your perspective, what's coming down the pipe on your end, on the on the CAO's end that we're gonna have to tackle in light of those upcoming deadlines?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Yeah, so at this point, we're waiting for uh draft regulations to be released to get an understanding of where exactly we're going from the preserved and proclaimed provisions. We understand that there's consideration of expanding the tribunal's jurisdiction into meetings, but the scope of that is unknown at this time. Um, once we have a sense of what that is, we do have procedures in place to ensure that the tribunal both has capacity for these cases because the scary situation, what keeps us up at night is the fear of the tribunal becoming backlogged and it taking forever to go through their process. Um but also to make sure that we have enough time to ensure that the adjudicators develop the subject matter expertise that would be necessary to take on those cases. One of the advantages of an administrative tribunal is you have some specialized knowledge in the people who are involved in decision making. If you go to small claims court, for example, you have no guarantees that the judge will have any idea about anything to do with condos. So if we know that our tribunal is going to get certain types of meetings in this jurisdiction, we need to ensure that the tribunal members are well versed and well qualified to be able to help tackle those cases.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

And I can say that as a user of the uh condo authority tribunal, well, as a representative of of condominium corporations at the tribunal, we are definitely seeing an increased uh knowledge base in the mediators and adjudicators as the tribunal ages. We're seeing that development of the condo specialization, which I think is helpful for the outcome and uh the decision making.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

DHA is a boutique firm serving condominiums and other shared ownership communities. This is our focus and passion. We provide tailored, expert guidance that is practical, responsive, and aligned with the unique needs of each condominium community we serve. We look forward to continuing to support and strengthen condominium communities for years to come. We look forward to seeing you at the next CCI event. For more information about our firm, please visit us at dhagondolaw.ca.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

So I we're getting already getting short on time, which is shocking because these are supposed to be snappers. Uh so let's move along then to the next one is the upcoming rule changes and platform upgrades. So changes to the CAT rules.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, so there was a consultation, and I know that the chair, Ian Darling, has been fielding through the feedback and got a lot of it, which is fabulous. Uh, planning to update the the rules of the tribunal. Once the updated rules are set, there'll be a notice sent in 30 days for people to become aware of them. But we are anticipating that to happen later on this year. Uh, lots of feedback around the approach to costs and some other areas, but we are expecting some fine-tuning of the rules as far as that goes. And just as part of the CAO's mission, we're always trying to improve the resources, the platforms that we use. We just uh recently updated our returns platform that worked really well and got some positive feedback at return season time, making it a little bit easier for people to participate. No different with the tribunal. So we're just working on our technology, trying to improve it, identify the pain points that people have had with the system, and find ways to be able to improve it to make the user experience of engaging in this online tribunal more comfortable for people. Like the proxy form, it's never going to be perfect, but where there's room for improvement. Let's let's take it and let's improve it, make it easier for people.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Let's talk a little bit about one of the pilot projects that's ongoing right now for the CATPS process, the mediation, the 30-day mediation pilot program. I know I'm engaged in a couple of cases right now where we're going through that 30-day pilot program to try and have the mediation held within 30 days. Are you finding the positive feedback on that one?

SPEAKER_01 18:20

For me, um, because I'm a level separated from the adjudicators, I haven't heard the uh analysis on that yet. I think it's still a little bit early on. Right. I know the idea is to speed up that process that you don't need mediations going on for months and months and months. Uh, I know from my you know 20 plus years of private practice experience and mediation that people need deadlines to be able to get things done. Um, and particularly if you're engaging in an online process that's asynchronous, you might not necessarily know when it's time to make a final offer, how much time you have left, right? So having some clear deadlines around that, I think, will help. And it's also, as I alluded to earlier, the the management of cases to ensure we don't have a backlog. This is one effective way for us to be able to do that, to know it's coming down the pipe and to be able to keep cases moving along. We want people to be able to participate in cases when it's comfortable for them. And it's about striking that balance. Yes, there's a degree of flexibility, but we can't just wait around forever and have these cases drag out unnecessarily. So it's just trying to make sure that we're efficient in how we go about doing things.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

And efficiency also uh helps condos manage their own resources as well. And that'll be helpful.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Completely. There is one other update that's not really Ontario based, but I think it's exciting to share as a condo geek, and I know you are too. And that's what's going on in Alberta. Right. Alberta, April 1st, launched their condo dispute uh tribunals, right? So now we have three provinces across Canada that have condo-specific tribunals. And it's no surprise to you, I'm sure, Nancy, but I took a lead in collaborating and getting everybody together. So we have these quarterly meetings bringing together BC, Alberta, and Ontario to talk and support one another, understand what we're doing. It's fascinating for us, for example, to see Alberta's tribunal has meetings in their jurisdiction to learn about how that's working, the scope of that, how they're approaching that, being able to support one another. They're just launching their tribunal. It's only a couple of weeks at the time of this recording old. So us to be able to talk to them about what our experiences were like in our first cases, and what it's not going to be exactly the same for them, but it really does help them get a little bit of insight and not feel so isolated and alone as they're venturing into something. And I just think it's kind of interesting to see as I know like Jim had done for years, the condo cases across Canada, learning from the other jurisdictions. It's really just celebrating that and coming together. Sure, you can have like friendly rivalries and everything, but I think the most important part is to work together and support one another. And we're here for BC and Alberta, and they're here for us, and I think that's fabulous. And I'm really excited about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

And actually, that is sort of a spin-off uh to one of the committees that I sit on at the national level. We have the National Government Relations Committee, and I chair that committee, and it is representatives from across the country in governments. We get together twice a year and talk about hot topics and key issues. And the tribunal was an issue that we started talking about about three years ago, or maybe four years ago, when BC was launching theirs and then we were getting ours up and running. And Alberta was very intrigued. And so we put everybody into contact with each other as well at those levels so that people could start dialoguing. And as you say, Mark, I think it's a tremendous um um opportunity for everyone to have a discussion. And at CCI, we're delighted to play part in that, of bringing everybody together to the table to have dialogue and to share information. It's it's a great approach to getting this out laid out across the country.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, definitely. And I my understanding is that the Alberta chapters of CCI were very instrumental in Alberta in in both planning and now in the delivery, and no different in BC with the BC chapters. So it's it's great to see that kind of connection to get experts being able to help and get people working together to improve the sector and help people in these communities because that's what we all have in common. What we want to do is make it easier for folks.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

So that makes good sense. Making condo communities better. That's what we're all about. On that note, let's talk about AI. Because there's obviously two sides to the AI coin. Does it make the condo community? Stronger, or in some cases, can it cause a bit of rivalry? I can say that I've had experiences where AI has been introduced, uh information coming from AI or an opinion coming from AI, and it has caused significant disharmony in the community because the information was wrong. Um, and it did come from a reliable source allegedly, but the information was generated through AI. So it did cause disharmony in the community until we got to the bottom of it, and everybody understood that this AI answer was wrong. So you're gonna talk to us a little bit about the role and impact of AI from your perspective at the CAO.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Definitely. I think one thing that most people don't realize is that tribunal decisions aren't Google. Googleable?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Is that a real We're gonna make it a word today?

SPEAKER_01 22:51

So you can go to Canley or our website and you can click and you can receive and review a decision that's been rendered by the tribunal. But if you were just to Google a case, you the the party's names aren't gonna come up that way. It comes up through through blogs and commentary on the cases. And one of the concerns is figuring out what is feeding AI. If the cases aren't Googlable, is it the blogs and the commentary that are feeding AI the information? And if so, if there's any risk that there is some inaccuracy or some kind of bias view or just skewed in how it's being perceived, AI isn't getting the cleanest information to be able to compute as it is. We already have to worry enough about what kind of hidden biases there are and how AI puts things together. But if it's not getting the decisions directly from the source, there's already a degree of separation as to what it's going to spit out, right? Yeah. Um, combined with that, the the risk of people who are not sophisticated and not used to reviewing cases, relying on false cases that don't really exist, can be a real problem, both in terms of them setting expectations of what's a realistic outcome and for the folks dealing with it. Uh, there was a great case, actually came out last year out of BC Civil Resolution Tribunal. The vice chair of their strata, their condo sector also does some small claims stuff. And he had a situation where one person, her name is Jessica Simpson, but it's not that Jessica Simpson, um, relied on fake cases uh in a in a pleading. And the uh responding party was self-represented and got themselves quite stressed out trying to respond and unable to find the cases that the person had cited, like not even able to find them on Canley or anywhere. So what ended up happening was the uh the decision maker uh basically equated to a fine of$500, which is rare to for them to uh recover costs in any type of way in that venue, um, because it was so difficult for the responding party to be able to do anything about these fake cases, and it was quite careless of the individual to not do their due diligence and to make sure that they're actually relying on real cases. But CAO has a self-represented guide, and one of the things that we have in our self-represented guide is a recommendation that if you're relying on cases, uh decisions that have been made, download a copy of it, keep the decision handy so that you have it, and that way you also know it actually exists, because that is a really big concern for people. Uh, we also have started in our Canley listing of our decisions, uh, we've partnered with Canley, and we do have AI summaries that are embedded in those decisions on Canley to try to offer some plain language brief overviews. Because while it's helpful for people to review tribunal decisions to get a sense of where they may stand in their case, there are an awful lot of them, right? So it can be difficult and overwhelming for people to try to wade their way through. So just trying to find ways forward in that sense. I think the other piece is we shouldn't kid ourselves and pretend that people aren't using AI. We see it all the time in the condo space from letters that are sent to management, letters sent by management, um, all that kind of idea, owners, uh, residents, tenants. But I think that just making sure that people are aware of responsible uses of AI and best practices is really important because it can be quite careless if people don't pay attention to what they're doing. Um, there are always some uh rumblings about the telltale science of what uh is AI use, but I think it really comes down to being responsible for what you're putting out there and the risk and understanding consequences if you do misinform. Like we know in the legal community, lawyers have to worry about what's going to happen if they end up presenting to the court or a tribunal a fake case. What's the consequence for those who aren't regulated in that way and making sure they're aware of that and are responsible in their use? I think it's really important as we move forward with this.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

I couldn't agree more. And there's a there's a whole bunch of points that we could unpack in in just that little short summary of the good, the bad, and the ugly of AI use. We have definitely seen at the CAT and in court uh other parties using cases that have been hallucinated and we've had to bring it to their attention and we brought it to their attention early, so fortunately we can move forward. But there's nothing worse than getting in front of a decision maker and the decision maker asking for that case and it doesn't exist. Like, I mean, I would imagine we unfortunately we haven't been in that situation. Uh but yes, make sure your case that you rely upon actually does exist no matter what side of the coin you're on. And then secondly, the the responsible use, as you're saying, there are a bunch of webinars out there put on by various chapters of CCI that talk about how to use AI responsibly. So I would encourage anybody who is using AI to take a look at those webinars and make sure that you're understanding the do's and don'ts of using AI. As you said, Mark, there are telltale signs of co-pilot and chat GPT, the two most common AI tools. When you get a letter and it has the certain kind of font, the certain subtext, the certain subtitles, it it's it's a hallmark of an AI use. And again, it is helpful for individuals who are trying to wade through a lot of material or difficult subjects for sure, but you want to make sure you're understanding how to use it effectively.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

One thing I've seen that's a real challenge is sometimes the hallucinated cases combine parties' names from different cases. So it's like party A from one case and party B from another case are combined in a listing for a fake case. So if you're if you know a little bit about the decisions and keep track of them, it seems vaguely familiar, but you can get tricked very easily until you you delve in a little bit deeper because there's so many cases to make sure that that the that two parties actually did have a case together at the tribunal. So it can be tricky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

It's like a it's like a multiple choice question on a university exam. It looks just about right, but there's that one word in there that's incorrect.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Um, we do have to be careful.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

And I think we've we've actually unfortunately come to the end of our our snapper time today. So, Mark, I want to say thank you so much for participating in our snapper today. I know there's a so much more coming down the pipe. And so hopefully in a few months we can get together again and talk about more updates and where we're at with that proxy form.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Definitely. It's always a pleasure, Nancy. Thank you so much for having me. I love the work that you're doing out there for the Eastern Ontario condo communities. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Thanks so much, Mark. And thank you everyone for tuning in once again to the condo pod, your source for all things condo in Eastern Ontario. Be sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode and share this podcast with your fellow members of the condominium community. For more resources and upcoming events, visit us online at ccieasternOntario.ca. And again, if you're not yet a member, click the link in our chat and you'll be able to join us as a member as well. Until next time, stay informed, stay connected, and keep your community strong. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Thanks for tuning into the Commando Pod, your source for all things Commando and Eastern Ontario. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And share this podcast with your fellow Commando community. For more resources and upcoming events, visit us at ECIEternOntario.ca. Until next time, stay informed, stay connected, and keep your community strong.