SNAPPERS SERIES: Why Attend the CCI Eastern Ontario Kingston Conference

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Condo Pod, brought to you by the Canadian Convention Institute Eastern Ontario chapter. This is your go-to space for all things condo in Eastern Ontario. From governance and legal updates to maintenance, management, and community living, we're diving into the topics that matter most to condo owners, directors, and professionals across our region. Let's dive in. Hey everyone, Mike Lowicki here from CCI Eastern Ontario, and I'm excited today to bring a special feature of our podcast series where we're going to talk about the events and things happening within the CCI world, specifically May 29th, our Kingston CCI Eastern Ontario conference. It's exciting. Like I said, May 29th, check on our website, details are there. But today, we are going to talk to one of the panelists on one of our most featured and favorite sessions of any conference we do, which is our legal panel. Now, I think I may have given away a bit of our guest. Our guest is a lawyer, and it is actually Graham McPherson from Stack Condo Law, based in Ontario, does condominium law in Ontario. And we're going to talk a bit about these legal panels, what they bring to the table, and kind of to be honest, why a lawyer will want to sit at the front of a room and talk about condo law with a bunch of other condo lawyers in a room full of condo people. I find it exciting, but I also do Star Trek conventions, so I'm a bit odd. So without further ado, Graham McPherson, welcome to the Condo Pod and thank you for taking the time today.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Well, thank you very much for having me. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

This is fantastic. So also for those who don't know, um, besides sitting on the board, uh, which is a fantastic volunteer that he does here for Seesaw Eastern Ontario, you've been involved in condo law when called to the bar in 2018, but you've been involved in it when you were articling since 2016.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Yeah, I've been a day one uh condo lawyer. I I uh, you know, I at the at the risk of repeating what I think a lot of people in the industry say, I didn't dream of it as a kid necessarily, but fell into it, really liked the community, really liked uh both, you know, the people on my own team uh where I initially was, and uh, you know, as I think we'll get into today, really enjoy working in the condo law industry as a whole because my opponents are actually people I get along with very well.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Well, and that's what you and I have talked about as well. And and a number of your peers have said, and people in the business is that condominium law is it's around a specific act, the condominium act, right, is what legislation other legislation is well. But then it's the people that make that act come alive. And the fact that, and I'm gonna say, I I I've seen you, I've talked with you, I see how you you deal with these processes, you bring it alive the act because it's around the people. The act is around the people that live in these condo communities. And the fact that you understand them, you know them, you participate in these organizations, because it's a living, breathing piece of legislation. Right. So, um, like I said, I I've seen Graham, if you haven't seen Graham, I've seen Graham in a number of different sessions, legal panels, um, different events, just chatting on the side in the hallways and that. I'm excited to see you because I always like what you bring to the table, your perspective on it, and and having your peers at the table gives a unique opportunity for the public to see. So for yourself, um, you know, you're gonna make the drive down to Kingston, it's a great day. Um, what kind of draws you into doing these legal panels?

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Well, um I mean, first of all, with respect to Kingston itself, I love Kingston. I went to school in Kingston, always happy to go back there. It's uh one of my favorite places in the whole province. But with respect to the panels themselves, I am a big advocate of the condominium community being as educated as it can with respect to, you know, what does the condo act say? What are the practical realities of that mean? Um, because I find that if as many people as possible are as educated as they can be on, you know, what their rights and obligations are, then it can help avoid a lot of disputes. It can help turn what would be major, you know, month-long campaigns into maybe a week-long negotiation, and then you get it done. And I just think that one of the biggest causes of dispute spiraling out of control is just people not understanding what their rights are, what the law says. So I think these panels are an invaluable source for the public for that, especially since, you know, it's one thing to hear it from your own lawyer who you're paying, but it's it's quite another thing to see um a panel of lawyers who are often on opposite sides of each other in the courtroom, sort of all giving their perspective on an issue. And when you can see common ground there, I think it's a really good way for the public to at least see what the legal industry is thinking of a particular issue at a certain time.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

And and I think that's where, and and I'll say this a shout out. I got, you know, many lawyer friends in different parts of you know, disciplines in law. What I have found with yourself and your peers at these events, and when I've seen you guys present or talk, is it's not, even though you are legally adversaries, right? The law requires an adversarial role, uh, but not in a negative way. And I mean that where and I'll put the television aside and their perspective on on the legal profession. I've seen you with your peers that we all know, and though you have opposing views or opposing positions, the ultimate goal is to make sure there's clarity around how the condo act is understood and enforced and treated. Um, so for yourself, I guess and and this is something I made a note here for myself. What is one thing if you could pick, if we were sitting at this panel where May 29th, if somebody said what is one myth about condominium law that the public it would help them to better understand and know that is just simply a myth about condominium. I know I'm putting you on the spot.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

No, that's okay. I think one of the bigger myths of condominium law, and I I think it sort of cuts both ways, is with respect to what the condo can and can't necessarily charge back to owners.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Um, be it legal fees, be it administrative fees, be it, you know, cleanup costs, repair costs. I think sometimes, you know, on the condo or management end, there can be a misconception that I don't think we're allowed to charge that back, or maybe the misconception cuts the other way that let's just charge it all back. Um, and similarly, you know, some owners may um be in a situation where they uh receive a chargeback letter and feel that they have to pay it, even though maybe they don't. Um conversely, maybe they get one and they are of the view that uh how dare you charge me back in my own home? I'm never paying this under any circumstances whatsoever. And I mean, there is no one size fits all answer to what can and can't be charged back. Uh these at the risk of sounding like a lawyer, all depend on the circumstances. But I think um one of the biggest myths uh w without specifying, you know, which side of the coin it falls on, is typically just people's strongly held beliefs about what can and can't be charged back. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

And and I know it sounds like I'm I'm shilling for CCI here, but that's kind of the thing. But you said it these panels and the lawyers, it's about educating. So many people come at from uh, you know, an uninformed perspective, not not because they maliciously do so, they just didn't know there was a resource other to get the right information.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Well, yeah, I mean, I I don't know if you've uh for leisure read the Condo Act, but it's not a fun read. Um I actually have.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

I've got pocket copies.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

I love the Well, you know, at the Star Trek conventions, maybe you guys talk about that. We do, yeah. But um, I think for most people, uh, it is much more preferable to get this type of information in an easily digestible, everyday language type of way. And I think the legal panel is one of the best ways you're gonna get that.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

And to that point, and and I appears in the office where I work, they'll see the condo act on my desk, they go, hey, that's great. I said, Look, that's for reference. I said, I go to lawyers. I said, because they understand the spirit, they know, you know, current case law, cat decisions, right? And now you've got the two levels, right? You've got the courts, you got the private settlement decisions, and then you have the condo authority tribunal. That's three different levels that I may have a current copy of the act. I don't have that current legislation or that working knowledge. And that's where I like the fact you're gonna be in this panel to talk to that opportunity.

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SPEAKER_02 9:01

And I mean, the other thing is that, you know, the Act the legislation, like any legislation, can't really keep up with how fast life moves. And so, you know, the act may say one thing, but how do how do we interpret that in the, you know, in the age of AI, in the age of post-COVID? How how do all these things interact? And so I think that's the type of information, even if you do religiously read the Condo Act every night, there's just some practicalities of everyday life you're not going to get from it.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

And that's that nuance that you deal with. And that's why um, for those who are like, you know what, do I want to make the drive to Kingston? Do I need to see a legal panel? Uh, no to both, except one, the Kingston condo community is absolutely fantastic. Like, I love the fact that we host two conferences a year, and the first one's always in Kingston, Freestone, Ontario. Sam. The fact that we get our legal panel, we get you to come in, take the time out of your day to come in and chat with people in an environment where it's a two-way dialogue. Like this legal panel, there's a QA section. The lawyers often also you guys kind of have this open, lively dialogue, right? And and just so people know is they're not actually fighting. It's it's they're they're they're respectfully disagreeing, but these are you work with these lawyers all day, every day, and in and out of court and professional situations. Um so, what is one thing if somebody was to come to this legal panel, what is something you would like them? What kind of questions would you guys like to receive from from the public? And I will start with these legal panels are not fueled to get free legal advice about specific scenarios.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Yeah, I guess I it's hard for me to ask, you know, just ask us general questions, divorced entirely from anything that's actually going on at your condo, because um, people's questions are going to tend to be based on what is happening at their condo at the time. I guess I would just encourage you to be as sort of looking for general rules as much as you can, rather than in this specific situation, what should we do? Because myself and other lawyers on the panel aren't going to be able to answer it right then and there. But I think instead, sort of asking about how we should approach these types of problems, or how should we think about these types of things, or you know, what attitude or like kind of regular steps should the border management be taking in X, Y, and Z scenario? I think asking for those sort of framework questions, you're gonna get um a better bang for your buck in terms of coming out of that conference and thinking, geez, that was useful.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I think, and that's exactly it. And and I mean that's what I take out is where's the scenario, what's the solution based, or you know, if I wanted to learn about uh just generally speaking in the act where liens are, oh, that's in this section and it's around this scenario, and this is the process you'd work with your manager company if all things were equal with the lawyer. Um, so no, that's that's exactly it. And then other thing about these conferences, and I know we're talking with a legal panel, and it's a it is a full one-day conference, get there early, great coffee. We always have amazing cookies. Yes. But what is one other part about conferences that I think that people may not think there's a benefit to for yourself? Uh mine for me is the hallway conversations in between the sessions, going to get the cup of coffee or the cookie, those conversations. What is something that you as a as an industry professional, a member of CCI and a board member, what do you also get out of these selfishly? What do you get out of these conferences?

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Well, selfishly, and I think it applies to everyone. I'll I'll say it from sort of my perspective as a lawyer first, and then I think it's true for everybody. But there is a lot of value in actually knowing the people in the community that you are working in. There's a lot of value in that. And it's not something you can necessarily quantify. Uh, I don't know if there's a scientific metric behind it, but from a lawyer's perspective at least, I can almost guarantee that if, you know, somebody hires me to help them with a negotiation or a dispute they're having, be it with their condo or with an owner, if I know and have a good relationship with the lawyer on the other side or the manager on the other side, this thing has a much better chance of being resolved quickly, easily, and cost-efficiently. And I think that is probably true whether it comes to, you know, project management, uh, anything in condos, elevator installations, insurance, uh, you know, waterproofing. Just when you know the contractors or the professionals that you're dealing with, and when they know you and when you have that relationship, it just makes everything smoother. It really does. And I it is rare, especially in the you know, era of Zoom and Microsoft that we live in now, you know, you can you can meet with people and have the talking heads experience, and that's fine. But I do think there is something invaluable about the in-person experience and actually sort of forming that relationship and proving that we are more than our Outlook accounts.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

And and that's a great point. And and many people will say this. You can usually I judge a conference on three things the size of the coffee cups at break time, the cookies, and if I come out of the conference, energize with an aha moment, or if I come out drained. Yeah. If I come out like it was more of a work effort to attend it than not, um, which is why we've got our conference. I always look forward to the Kingston Conference. Um So for yourself, too, is what would be a pitch you would make to somebody who is just looking at the condo world and is like, again, what happens at these condo conferences? What would be something you would share with them? What's an experience you get out of it? We talked about the in-person, the connecting. What is something else that they were going to come in that they learn from?

SPEAKER_02 14:48

I think, you know, if you're uh a member of a board or if you're a property manager, or you know what, even if you're a condominium owner, I think it is hard to say with uh any sort of exact science what specifically you will learn at these conferences. But I think you will walk away having taken multiple tangible, actionable things that you can take back to either your unit or your board uh and make life a little bit easier with. I think you'll probably meet uh people in the industry who have something to offer or help, maybe that you, you know, with a problem you didn't even know you had. Um, and I think there is also value in just being there and by osmosis, sort of absorbing what the community is talking about, what are the issues right now, and being sort of aware of that and having your finger to the pulse of what's sort of buzzing in the community at that time. Um, it's tough to say with conferences, you know, like there's no checklist of these are the exact things that you will come out with. But I do think that there is value in becoming part of the community and uh and engrossing yourself in it.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

I think that's it. You nailed it on the head as you can't give a specific, but it's when you walk in the room, you'll hear conversations about oh, our common element, oh, we need to change the roofing contractor, oh, we're getting a reserve fund study. It's the osmosis conversation that gets your brain thinking as a director or owner, or a condo manager, or an engineer.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

And that's the type of stuff too, especially, you know, if you're a director or a manager, those types of hallway conversations, because you never know. You know, like you said, if somebody else just got their roof done and you are about to deal with yours, you're not gonna find the information, the real practical information you need on Google. You're gonna find it in conversations.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

And that's it, right? It's the connections of the people. Um, I wish we could spend all day doing this. I know we probably have a few things in the condo space to take care of. Uh, it is towards the end of the week. Um, I would like to say on behalf of the condo pod hosts and the board, which I guess I'm thanking you on behalf of you as well. Um, thank you very much for coming in today to talking about the conference, about kind of how you're involved and what drives you into this. Um, everybody, May 29th in Kingston, check out our website, all of our socials, check out our podcast. We will have Graham back in the future for a full 100% podcast episode. So wait for that, watch for that coming down the pipe. Uh but for all of that, thank you all for listening and watching. And Graham, thank you very much for attending. Thanks for having me. Bye, everybody. Thanks for tuning into the Condo Pod, your source for all things condo in Eastern Ontario. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And share this podcast with your fellow condo community. For more resources and upcoming events, visit us at ccieasternOntario.ca. Until next time, stay informed, stay connected, and keep your community strong.