Snappers Series: Why attend your next legal panel?

Kingston Conference: https://site.pheedloop.com/event/Kingston2026/home

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Condo Pod, brought to you by the Canadian Convin Institute Eastern Ontario chapter. This is your go-to space for all things condo in Eastern Ontario. From governance and legal updates to maintenance, management, and community living, we're diving into the topics that matter most to condo owners, directors, and professionals across our region. Let's dive in. Hey everybody, Mike Lewicki here on behalf of CCI Eastern Ontario and another special episode of the Condo Pod. So today I am here again. We're talking about our upcoming Kingston conference, and our Kingston conference is absolutely fantastic. If you were looking for the absolutely best conference to go out of any conference, out of any industry for the first half of 2026, this is the one. So it's May 29th, held in Kingston. Details on our website, on our socials, check us out. But today we're in the studio today talking to one of her panelists for, I would probably say, one of her most exciting and anticipated uh sessions of our conference, which is the legal panel. Today I'm joined by Victoria Crane of Davidson Hole Allen. Thank you, Victoria, so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

So, for those who don't know, uh Victoria is with, like I said, Davidson Hull Allen, one of the top con minium firms in the province within Ontario, obviously recognized within the country as well, but within Ontario, well known. And I've known Victoria for many years through my time with CCI, seen her up on the panel, talked with her, seen her at seminars, and what we're excited about today is to kind of find out who Victoria is, what it is with the condo, you know, world that you enjoy, what the business is, and what we're hoping to get out of this panel coming up on May 29th. So I've just got a few questions for you, Victoria, to help the kind of listeners and the and the viewers kind of understand a bit. So you were called to the bar in 2017. Now, for those who don't know, called to the bar essentially means at that point you can lawfully be a lawyer, I believe. Is it right?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yes, that is correct.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Um and that is all my understanding, by the way, at that point. That's my research, that's where it starts and ends.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

You got it.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Um but so 2017, you were called to the bar, became a lawyer, and then how did it go from there? You're like, you know what, I really think I want to look at rules, regulations, bylaws, and declarations.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yes. So how did I get into condominium?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Um so uh my articling experience was at a full service law firm. Right. Um, which means that uh at at that law firm, um, the firm practices a wide array of uh areas of law. Right. And uh one of those areas of law was condominium law. And when I uh became a lawyer, I didn't intend to become a condominium lawyer. I didn't know much, if anything, about condominium law, but while articling, um I got some exposure to condominium law, and I really gravitated towards that practice group because primarily of the people um that were practicing. I liked the way that the lawyers practiced law, and then as I became more familiar with condominium law, I realized it there's it there's a lot to it. And it's just a little bit. Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

It covers a wide range of issues. Um it covers, although it's a very niche area of the law, it touches on a wide array of aspects of like employment law, uh, construction deficiency litigation, um, you know, human rights. You know, we're dealing with uh quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

It does, and and considering how it was designed, you know, from my layman's understanding, the condominium act in Ontario, which yes, people, there is legislation, that's kind of how it works, is to allow people to live in a different type of you know living arrangement. No, so so to that point, like condominiums are essentially helping people to understand how to live differently than the traditional white picket fence, you know, residential neighborhood. It's still residential living, it's still living with neighbors just in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yes, exactly. And so you're living within the framework that the condominium act sets out, as well as your declaration, bylaws, and rules. Um, and so of course, um with that um comes um you know having to think of the condominium community as a whole uh and not just your individual self. But and so I think with condominium law, what really pulled me in is helping condominiums, uh condominium communities function in a uh healthy uh way.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

And and and that's an interesting approach. Um I I get in in my day job, I get to deal with lawyers of many different disciplines, many different styles of law and different types of law. And it's it's interesting in in and like I said, I've seen you at different events and seen you at different seminars, and and you'll always get the questions about, well, I've got this position, I've got this issue, and you've always approached it from well, what's the end result?

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Like we may have started here, but why did we start there? Where is the disconnect? Where are we going to in this?

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Right? And and that was kind of a question I was gonna ask you is it's if you think about it, because I was making my notes, so you've almost been in condominium law for over a decade.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yes. Is that insane to think like it's completely insane today? Right? I don't feel like it's been that long, but I guess time flies when you're having fun.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Time flies and you're like, I'm just gonna read these declarations and declare in standard units, and it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

So between when you say started back in 2017, if you had to say to the general public, and obviously our viewers and listeners, what is the one biggest change you've seen in condominium law between then and now? There's been a number of changes. The act and all that stuff, but one that people may not realize is happening now, but wasn't then.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

So I think when I started practicing condominium law in 2017, um, obviously there were significant changes to the legislation that happened right around that time. At that point in time.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

You came like right in when the big changes.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

I came in right in when the big changes, you know, significant amendments were made to the condominium act. Um, the there was the introduction of the condominium management services act. Yes. So with that came, you know, the creation of the condominium authority uh of Ontario, the first, you know, condo administrative authority. We had the condominium authority tribunal um, you know, governing uh condominium disputes fully online.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Right, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

And so over the past 10 years, we've seen the CAT go from dealing solely with records requests to you know more nuisance type-based disputes. And so that jurisdiction is expanding, which we've seen over the past 10 years and continue to see. Um, and with the with those changes to the legislation, we also saw you know the implementation of sort of a more formal records request process for owners, you know, mandatory director training, um uh, you know, the licensing of condominium managers. There were a whole host of changes that happened in 2017 that you know we've now seen you know come into play over the past almost decade. Yeah. Um, I think another big change that we also uh saw over the past uh uh decade or so is uh you know the very quick transition to uh going from in-person owners' meetings to uh online meetings. Yes. Yeah, so with the pandemic, that quickly changed. Uh virtual meetings. That was almost like overnight. Overnight. It became normalized so quickly. And I think before the pandemic, we weren't really seeing um, you know, we weren't we weren't doing virtual meetings at all. Uh and so that was another really big change that I think we've seen um over the past nine years or so.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Yeah, and uh and and actually that's I've I've got my own AGM coming up, and it is virtual. Uh, but I remember pre-COVID, I actually had to go knock on my neighbors' doors to get proc to get uh quorum.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Um actually my own directors on the board, I had to knock to get them to come to make quorum. So that you're right, they're virtual online, but and it kind of leads back into what you were saying at the beginning about how it's the people. Yes. So the virtual aspect has made it more efficient and effective for people to have access to data, to their lawyers, their directors, but I think it's moved a bit of the human element, which I I've seen yourself, your firm, and other firms kind of bring it back to the it's about the people. Right?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Um Yeah, and I think at the end of the day, um, you know, you know, as condominium like industry professionals, um, I think our goal is the same. We want to help support and build uh strong, well-run condominium corporations um and communities. And at the end of the day, those communities are comprised of the owners. Um, and so it's about the people, like at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

It is, and it's funny we not that we forget that, but it's people will look at it and get mired in in the business of it and not the people.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Um and I think also to your point, um, you were sort of uh stating that you know we try to provide uh, you know, key takeaways, um, you know, providing the practical information for and I I think that's why these panels are so important, um, because I think it's a really great opportunity for us lawyers on the legal panel specifically to um you know provide the key takeaways from well in condominium law, you know, from you know maybe it's from you know legislative amendments or a court decision or a cat decision that you know owners, boards, or managers can then take back and apply in the real condo world setting. And so I think when as lawyers, when we approach these legal panels, you know, we're as we're preparing, I want to provide key takeaways and practical information that owners, managers, and boards can use in in their own condominium communities. And so maybe during these panels, we answer a lingering condo question that you might have, or maybe we provide some information that you didn't know you need. Um, as we said, there's a lot to condominiums and operating and managing a condominium. Um, and as you know, the boards are ever-changing, and so it's it's important to get whatever practical information that we have out there, and I think these legal panels are a really great way to do that.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

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SPEAKER_02 11:24

They absolutely are. And um, and for again, we've got a couple of conferences, there's so many conferences all the time, and I always make this joke on this podcast that condo conferences are like Star Trek conventions. People will show up at a hotel, walk in around them, and goes, What is going on? I don't understand this, but when you're in it, you're like in, you're like, I get it. Once you're into it, when you walk into a Star Trek convention or a condo conference, you're all the way in. Um, but we have people coming from Ottawa, from southern Ontario, from Toronto, the GTA, because of these panels, because of these, so you made a a comment about the directors, and it is about the directors because they're elected by their fellow owners. It's it's an equality thing. But there's it's a fire hose for a new director walking in. Right? And we'll put aside all the training and all that. But if you're meeting a new director for the first time, you're you know, you're the counsel for the board, and they say, Victoria, what what do I need to know? What is something you can help direct them to be a great board member that you've seen in your time of providing counsel to a multitude of corporations?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

I think that's a really good question. Um as a starting point, I think that, yeah, I think a good starting place would be for the director to complete their uh mandatory director training um with the CAO. Shout out to the CAO. Yes, shout out to the CIO. I think that's a really good starting point, just for the directors to get a sense as to what their duties and obligations are. Of course, um, as you'll learn through the training, um, sort of one of the overarching uh legal duties of a board member is to act in the best interests of the condominium corporation. And so um I think just getting a sense as to, you know, what are my responsibilities and duties, uh, I think that's a really good starting point. And then from there, I think uh get familiar with your condominium. Right. Um get familiar, you know, read the declaration, read the bylaws, read read the rules. Um, I'd even suggest reading um the maybe the last year or two of the minutes just to get a sense or board meeting minutes. Yes, absolutely. Just to get a sense as to what's going on within your condominium corporation right now. Um, because I think that will allow you to sort of hit the ground running with these. And then I guess my final point would be to ask questions. Don't be scared to ask questions. Again, there is a lot that goes into running or governing a condominium corporation. There are a ton of moving parts, and so ask questions if you're unsure. Uh, you know, ask your fellow board members, your condominium manager is a valuable source of information. And to the extent the board and manager um you're unsure of how to deal with the specific situation, then reach out to the uh condominium professionals, you know, whether that be a lawyer, an engineer, um uh, you know, a reserve fund analyst, um, and so forth, uh, to in order to get uh the information that you need in order to make an informed decision. Um I, you know, jumping in uh as a board as a brand new board member, you're you're jumping into the deep end a little bit. Absolutely. And so I think you need to give yourself some grace and you know, ask the questions that you need to in order to, you know, be the best board member that you can.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Absolutely. And and and to that point, and you've alluded to it, the the community isn't just the ownership, the community is the condominium, I say vendors and contractors in the professional sphere. Right? You you've you've attended multiple AGMs, you've dealt with legal notices, you know, unfortunate situation with liens, things like that, where that director not only has a fiduciary responsibility, they were elected, to make decisions on behalf of the board and the ownership, but they also have a responsibility to themselves to gain that knowledge, right? And and that's what you're there for, is to support the board by delivering the services that the ownership wants. Um and and and this is something that I I always ask um, usually after the condo conferences, and we all go for uh, you know, a nice little uh glass of warm milk. After I ask these questions many times of the lawyers, is what is something that you find the condo act does quite well? And I'm using this as a general, it could be the CAO, the CMRAO, the CAT. What is one thing you found that it does quite well in regards to condominium living? And what is one thing that you think they're still progressing on that could still have improvements on?

SPEAKER_01 16:09

So I think something that the condominium act does really well is it provides a good and solid governance framework uh in which condominium corporations can um uh can function. Uh, that also promotes transparency and accountability. Um, you know, it clearly sets out the responsibilities of the condominium corporation and of owners. Um, you know, it also sets out requirements relating to financial reporting, reserve fund uh revert reserve fund planning, meetings, and so forth. And so I think that helps ensure that condominium corporations across the province are run in a consistent fashion and in an organized way.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Um something that I think uh that the condominium act could do a bit better, I think would be with respect to um the ability for condominium corporations to hold owners um responsible uh for certain costs.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Sorry, I'm smiling because this is uh this is a hot button for me separately from this podcast. So I'm dialed into this part of the conversation 100%.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah, so the condominium act, of course, uh clearly sets out uh uh certain situations in which a condominium can charge back uh certain costs to owners. Um you know, for instance, if um uh uh insurance deductible, the condominium corporation's insurance deductible in certain circumstances, if the condominium completes repairs on behalf of a unit owner, um the condominium can charge back those costs. Uh, but there's other situations in which it's less clear.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Um I like that phrasing, less clear. We'll go with that's the phrase for Friday.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

When a condominium can charge back uh costs to owners. And um uh particularly when there's non-compliance by an owner. You know, that's what I'm ultimately talking about here. When there is an owner that is non-compliant with the condominium's governing uh documents or the condominium act, um, there are certain situations where the ability of the condominium to charge back um the cost it incurs to enforce compliance is less clear, as I had said. And what happens as a result of that is that uh the other owners, well, all owners, um, have to pay for those costs to um uh for the condominium corporation to enforce compliance against you know the non-compliant owner, which isn't uh fair in my view.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yeah, I I call it subsidizing other people's decisions.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yes. And so I think in terms of something that I think the condominium act could do a bit better, it would be to uh better support the condominium corporation's ability to charge back um those non-compliant uh the costs incurred to enforce noncompliance um against owners.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Absolutely, and you you just triggered something to me, and and and I know the phrasing and the language we're speaking in, we refer to the condominium corporation. And some people think that it's this corporation and the owners, it's us against them. Um but the corporation is the legal entity that the owners are part of. The owners are the corporation because they are the governing documents. When it refers to unit holders, it's them. When it refers to units, it's them. That's just the the physical description of the community they live in, right? So it's not the corporation is us against them, it's the corporation is a mechanism to have their community exist and coexist.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yes, exactly. And I think sometimes people uh think of like a condominium corporation as like a big bad corporation. Exactly. When that's not the case at all. As you said, like the condominium corporation, it's at the end of the day comprised of owners. It's fully funded by its owners. And so, you know, any cost that a condominium corporation incurs in order to, you know, uh enforce the provisions of the condominium act and the condominiums corporation, the condominiums governing documents against, you know, a non-compliant owner that can't charge, you know, that it can't charge back those costs to the owner. You know, the other owners have to pay for that at the end of the day. So um, yeah, I completely agree with you um on that front.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Yeah, um, and and and to that topic, and I mean, uh, I I could sit here and talk con minimum law all day and and chat with this. Um, but like for again for our listeners and our viewers, today was to give you guys a snippet of what's happening, you know, what Victoria is seeing is what you're gonna see at the legal panel on May 29th, 2026, um, in Kingston. Again, details on the website. Um, Victoria, any final thoughts for everyone? Whether it could be any topic on con minimal, condos, andor the panel, something to share with our viewers and our listeners and out there that you kind of want to know. The the camera in the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

I guess I will touch on the panel, um, only because I do think, well, actually, I'll maybe more generally just talk about the conference. I think that these, I think the Kingston Conference provides a really great opportunity for um, you know, board members, managers, um, and owners to uh obtain information about uh the condominium world, which again touches on so many issues. And so I think you know, not only the legal panel, but all of the panels always provide really great information that's helpful. Again, you know, maybe the attendees, you know, you get a a lingering condo question answered, or you know, again, you might um uh uh or maybe you know you had you get a question answered that you didn't know you you needed, or exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

They're like, I didn't know I needed to know that.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah, and so there's such great information that comes from these panels. But beyond that, I think there's also a really great opportunity for um for you know owners, managers, and um, you know, directors to have informal discussions with the uh condo professional, you know, uh profession the condo industry professionals uh who are present at these meetings. And so if you do have, you know, a specific question or matter that you know you'd just like to get a bit more insight on, you know, you have these con condominium industry professionals at your feet. Right there. And so there's a lot of value, yes, in the panels. You're gonna get great information.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Oh, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

You're also gonna have an opportunity to speak to these professionals one-on-one. And I think that's uh incredibly valuable, um, especially again, there's so much to know with condominiums generally. Um, you know, there's so many issues at play.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

And um And it's always changing. There's always some tweak of some other uh legislation. It could be the Residential Tenancy Act, it could be something to do with municipal legislation in a different city.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah, and I'm not even just talking about like the lawyers. There's also, yes, there will be, you know, lawyers present at um you know at the conference, but there are also you know engineers that are present. There's also you know, reserve fund analysts, you know, uh auditors, like there's so if you have questions um and or yeah, or that you're looking for some insight on, like these professionals are the conversations, yeah. And like beyond and beyond just the condominium, you know, professionals that are available to you, you know, there's also individuals in similar boats. Like we're all uh at the end of the day, everybody attending this conference, everybody has I think the same goal. Everybody wants to build and support, you know, strong, well-run condominium corporations. Absolutely. And um, yeah, I think there's a lot of um uh power in that.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

There absolutely is. And and to your point, I I love going to conferences. I know it sounds weird, but I enjoy them. But I do too. It's the I say to people some of the greatest parts about conferences are the hallway conversations when you're filling up your cup of coffee. Oh, you're so-and-so, oh, you're in a high-rise too, you're in a townhouse complex, oh, you're a roof vendor. Well, you know what? We have a flat roof, we have some questions, and then they say, Oh, you know what? We just dealt with that. We did a contract, and here's DHE over here, and here's this engineering firm. It's the hallway conversations, it's the connections that build the condo community. And like, a shout out to Kingston. It's a fantastic city, it's great for tourism. So if you haven't decided yet, check us out, go down there because it is one of the best conferences ever. I take the whole weekend and go down, it's absolutely amazing. Um, like I said, I wish we could do this all day. I I think this would be a great job for me to have just to sit here and talk about condos with you guys all day. Um, but thank you so much, Victoria, for taking the time today. We really appreciate it. Look forward to seeing you on the panel and of course in the hallway conversations, you know, at the booths and that. Um, for everyone, this is another episode of the condo pod. Today's episode was talking about the great legal panel we have coming out on May 29th in Kingston with Victoria Crane and a bunch of other amazing condominium lawyers, great law firms in Ontario. Um, check us out, check out the podcast, subscribe on any one of a multitude of different uh socials and things like that out there for us. And again, thank you, Victoria, for today.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Thank you so much for having me, Mike. I'll see you in Kingston.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

I'll see you in Kingston. Goodbye, everyone. Thanks for tuning into the Condo Pod, your source for all things condo in Eastern Ontario. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And share this podcast with your fellow condo community. For more resources and upcoming events, visit us at ccieasternOntario.ca. Until next time, stay informed, stay connected, and keep your community strong.